Homo economicus’ Weblog

Hello all and welcome to what I hope will be a freethinking place.

Just to introduce myself, I go by the name Homo economicus on the richarddawkins.net/forum where I am a moderator. Yes, one of those militant atheists. Although I am very unsure about the “brights” term. I may think someone is wrong to be a theist but I would not automatically consider myself somehow better than them which is what is implied by the word - Dennet saying they can refer to themselves as “supers” is for me a cop out.

Yet we need to be prepared to put forward the views we have. Religion and superstition is on the march in the body politic whether it is radical Islam, stem cell research or homeopathy on the NHS at the taxpayer’s expense. These are issues which go at the heart of people that care about reason and science – so when atheists seem moved to comment, emboldened by the string of books out there recently (Harris, Dennet, Dawkins, Hitchens) that should not surprise people.

Apart from that why do I personally care about the theist/atheist debate?

 At junior school one assembly we prayed to God thanking him for the rain. When I went home I asked my mother why it did not rain so much in Africa – they seemed to need it more than us and it seemed cruel for a loving God that caused rain to deny them. Sadly my mother did not turn to a scientific explanation to my question but Jehovah’s Witnesses that knocked on the door that very same week.

This experience ended up with me being taught at home half way through the beginning of the first year of secondary school. As you can probably guess, science did not feature strongly in my curriculum – the blue book they have on Creation and Evolution was for example a text I studied as “science”. I am sure Dawkins et al have been sent a copy many a time.

At about 14 I was very close to becoming baptized but a virus came to my aid – chicken pox caught from one of the bible study groups. I was bed laid by the experience for a few weeks. This gave my mother enough time to use reason for the first time – why should only those who call upon the name of Jehovah be saved? Could you not live a blameless life by Christian standards of morality but not believe and yet be worth saving on the day of judgment?

This led to research into the history of the organization. I will not go into details here, but lets just say it was an eye opener into an organization which evolved many times, and still does when predictions or interpretations prove wrong. We promptly left, thankfully my mother laughed the Mormons away after two home study visits!

I made the decision to go back to secondary school in the fourth year, and went on to study at the University of Exeter (and yes I am disappointed at the closures of departments there though I understand the financial arguments).

While I have moved from agnostic to atheist thanks to my own study of biology my mother holds on to an unknown God as a first cause. I hope to get her an audio copy of the God Delusion but for her a God of the Gaps in her own knowledge is easier for her to comprehend than the more beautiful answers that science offers.

If you know someone or have family members involved in such cults the personal advice I can give is be loving and compassionate to them while they are in. They have to see for themselves or else they will not leave but when they do give your active support, because when you leave you are ostracized by that faith and often have no one outside left to turn to for friendship. It is traumatic and often the person will not ask for help.

Some people have asked me how do you go about helping someone out of the Jehovah’s Witnesses?

I think my concept is softly softly catch a monkey.

 

You have to understand the mentality:

1) Satan is seductive

2) He can use the whole world to his evil will

3) This includes non believers

4) Demons can even penetrate conscious thought

5) Only JWs will be saved at this time near the end of days.

Now you can use logic, reason, Letter to a Christian Nation, cups of tea and chocolate biscuits.

What I am saying is that approach for someone that has just started studying or contemplating will most certainly work immediately – so best catch them quick before the indoctrination sets in. I am talking about a dyed in the wool fundamentalist who spends four hours a week at Ministry school learning how to debate and convert people. Trust me, when it comes to debating and arguing and acting like a brick wall the local Kingdom Hall (if it is effectively run) trained person will be very hard work unless:

 

a) they have misgivings about a doctrine (say women having no authority in the hierarchy)

b) prepared to investigate the matter outside of Elder supervision (peer pressure)

c) prepared if baptised to be shunned if this leads them to leave, and not accept Pascal’s Wager

d) that they trust someone who can help them reason for themselves but is outside of the JW organisation.

What I am suggesting to everyone here is you want to be considered d). That you are a freethinker, who is very good at reasoning things out. That you are a compassionate person that may not be so susceptible to 3).

In short what I am suggesting is that it isn’t no picnic.

As to offering to help them break free, you must bear in mind that one of the two with you will report that back. You will be marked down on the notes they write. In short you may not be visited, or only by Elders. The two may even be watched at the Kingdom Hall to make sure they are not falling away.

My stress on compassionate dialogue is that will be more likely to work. Even if they disagree with you, the chances are you will be not considered a threat. If you show hospitality, then on rainy days they may knock on your door in the hope of tea and biscuits (trust me we thought like this! In the warm a frank friendly exchange and extra hours for our monthly report).

 

If you do want to do this my advice is this:

 

*be the hospitable host

*show genuine interest in their belief system

*be compassionate not hostile (shutters not come down)

*hide what you are trying to do (trust me they are a suspicious lot; devil is everywhere)

*talk about various religions and wondering how do you choose which is true. Chances are they will give you the book Mankinds Search For God. Not a bad book, but you will see how they reject certain faiths then come up with theirs as trumps

*then use Letter to a Christian Nation (without pulling the book out)

*however, avoid saying Dawkins, Harris, TGD etc. Remember shutters will come down

*You may notice that two people will come to your study. However, at some point possibly one will come to your personal bible study (which would probably be on the book). In this situation, with a wide ranch of discussing you may get them to open up. My advice? Try and let them do the talking. Get them to open up and say how they really feel.

What I am suggesting to you is this will take a lot of time and effort on your part. Great of you are willing to do it. To be honest, I would find the whole thing really upsetting (I would not want a bible study ever again). You could think of me as the sort of person you could get advice from (indeed most ex Witnesses here would be willing to help) and maybe at some point get someone like me to speak to them to say what it is like leaving and yes, as Dawkins says:

You do have a choice. It is yours to make.