Posts Tagged ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses’
Bloody Hell
It has been a while since I wrote a blog. So a nine hour train journey from the West Country to the Midlands (thanks to Sunday engineering works) gives time which can be used to, literally right this wrong in a write way.
So a good place to start are comments which I have now gone through and approved. As usual the Jose Mestre and Jehovah’s Witnesses stance on blood transfusions has the most comment.
In the Blood
To have a substitue for blood in a critical blood loss situation would be brilliant; at the moment though it is only valid for minimal loss.
Health risks are nothing compared to being dead. Especially with death being a fatal condition with no after life healthcare coverage.
This is where my criticism of the religious refusal kicks in. As one who for many years was involved in going door to door in ministry work I do know the theological position, as I mention in another blog. The criminal act of letting your child die rather than give medical treatment, which gives them their only chance at living, is somehow countered with an after life faith in the resurrection. That spiritual care in whatever form has a priority over the material one.
The supernatural has no part in examing the best medical care for your child. A parent has no right to enforce their religious belief in this regard – their duty of care first and foremost is the life and physical well being of their child. Not what their interpretation of a text tells them.
Peace Out
Much as love, peace and understanding are good things the unnecessary death of a child cannot be allowed by a tolerance of religion or agreement that parents may give religious instruction to their children. It is a medical matter, and needs to be thought of in that way.
As to adults making the choice, it is their life to end as irrationally as they wish. In the same way that I can criticize that choice as being morally wrong, not with accord to the teachings of Jesus. The waste of a life, only serving as an example where belief in religion allows people to do things which for any other reason would shock more people to outrage.
My ability to tolerate belief is in the freedom of religion. That does not grant the liberty to inflict harm on those unable to reason for themselves with the ommission of medical care.
Comments
Thanks for the comments, keep them coming (whether you agree or not). When not on a train will link to the ones I am responding to here.
But please bear in mind two key points:
Argue with my points rather than personal comments – and if you do not know what a Homo economicus is think economics rather than sex.
Thanks guys …
Has Jose Mestre died?
A poster commented that he had passed away at St. John’s Hospital in London and there is a report on the web that he has passed away though there is no official confirmation dated October 20 2008:
His death is not confirmed yet, we are waiting for official confirmation.
Rumors said he was dead while surgeons were operating on his tumor. He is now 51 year-old. [source]
As ever, trying to look behind these things today I phoned the press office of St. John’s. The press officer had no press release or information to give about Mr Mestre.
Just in case you are unaware of who Jose Mestre is, he is known as the “man without a face”, because a tumour completely covers it – to a point where his breathing is being compromised. It first developed when he was 15, but out of deference to his mother’s religious belief as a Jehovah’s Witness, he refused surgery due to the risk of a blood transfusion being the only thing that could save him during the procedure.
He arrived in London for a new form of surgery that would reduce the risk of blood loss. The unconfirmed reports are that he died during the operation due to critical blood loss. Wikipedia reports his death with no citation. So if anyone has any sources, please do link them in your comments.
Background to Jose Mestre can be found at the blog:
Jose Mestre – the living impact of refusing blood transfusions
Making your mind up about God
The free thought tag police are coming!
Splendid Elles (right) tagged me to answer these series of questions.
Can You Remember The Day That You Officially Became An Atheist?
Officially is a redundant word in the question. I neither am a card carrying atheist, nor had a party where people celebrated my non belief. If you want an action that publicly made that, it would be in front of the White House when to a TV crew I spoke about atheists being treated as equal citizens with everyone else – that it was no reflection on your character or ability to be a moral person.
There is no one moment, where you rid yourself of the blood of the lamb. While at University it was a nagging feeling that there was no evidence for a supernatural being that communicated directly with us. Reading philosophy, and in particular Bertrand Russell, and reading politics just meant that god slipped away as I realised we humans have to take responsibility as the only conscious species in making the world a better place – rather than hoping with death we make it to a better one.
Do you remember the day you officially became an agnostic?
Fairly soon after leaving the study of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It occurred to me that their religion was the work of man and that prophecies claimed in the bible were allegories or concerned with actual events that had already happened. The human yearning though for a spiritual side to existence was one that completed the human experience, but religion was only an answer to that expression rather than the answer to the ultimate question of life the universe and everything.
Some people think the politically correct thing is to term yourself a skeptical agnostic. Yet becoming an atheist just means that you hold out there being no evidence that there is a god; and refuse to accept any argument by a person as being divinely inspired. They will need rationality, logic, empirical evidence, and the welfare of life to consider.
How about the last time you spoke or prayed to God with actual thought that someone was listening?
When I read Watchtower publications and realised that these were the works of men, with false prophecy and changed dogma. I prayed for realisation of what his will was, and that I may come to an understanding of the ultimate truth of things. The answer to those things is in the living.
Did anger towards God or religion help cause you to be an atheist or agnostic?
No. My anger was directed at the Watchtower organisation. That new editions of books did not highlight changes interpretations. It was almost doublespeak of Orwellian descriptions. My anger was directed at the real possibility of dying from refusing a blood transfusion – one that the Jehovah’s Witnesses have changed their mind about since 1956 when they first decided it was against god’s will.
Here is a good one: Were you agnostic towards ghosts, even after you became an atheist?
I never believed in ghosts. However nothing wrong with science trying to rationally explain the paranormal experience people have. Everyone has to make a living.
Do you want to be wrong?
If there is a god I think belief in him is the last yardstick by which he will measure your life on earth. The notion of freedom and autonomy for me goes against wishing for a celestial all powerful being to exist. There is no guarantee such a being would be benign – with 99% of all living things now extinct, and the way entities in nature try to survive pointing to life as a reflection of god’s attitude is one that would terrify me.
I do not fear death, just as I do not fear life. My ancestors went through it. People around me do it. You just have to figure out what you want to do in the time you have.
So to spread these ideas around, and keep the meme alive, I better tag some people:
Hustler family double shooting
Adam and Amanda Hustler
Danielle’s parents told her to end her relationship with Jonathan Cook because he was not a Jehovah’s Witness. They also fired him from the family business where he had worked since leaving the RAF. A month later, he is accused of entering the family home on Saturday and shooting both parents with a hunting rifle rifle, murdering Mr Hustler.
Mrs Hustler was injured, though it is unclear if she refused a blood transfusion during surgery or just made her religious convictions known that any under circumstances she would refuse one. I am inclined to think it was medically not necessary, and some newspaper editors may be pushing the faith angle that little bit further.
Police laid siege to Cook’s home, in Penzance and police have been unable to question him yet after he apparently tried to take his own life, though that has not been officially confirmed that was how his head injuries came about. The family home is in Porth Kea near Truro, where the other daughter Abigail (16) witnessed the attack.
The good news for the daughters is that their mother survived the incident. The Religion NewsBlog after reporting this makes the case for the Jehovah’s Witnesses being a cult and that their health fades since the 1950s being that of quacks after telling the account of how they opposed vaccinations and organ transplants, and on numerous occasions have flip flopped back and forth on blood products. Thankfully faith did not add to the murder already done by a jilted lover.
I also wonder at the details that are given in the newspaper’s coverage. Do we need to know the value of the family home, that it has 7 bedrooms or whether Mr Hustler’s mother spoke outside her detached house? It sounds like there is a real estate market for property shootings in suburbia.
Mothering Sunday – Mother’s Day
In the UK it is Mother’s Day this Sunday (if in the USA do not sweat you have till 11 May 2008 to get it sorted!). The date is not fixed each year as it is based on the middle Sunday of Lent – which in practise means three weeks before Easter Sunday.
This was one of those “pagan” festivals that as I could not participate in being a child in the Jehovah’s Witnesses . Even though honouring my mother would have been nothing more than giving a gift and a card, rather than slaughtering an animal before the Mother of God. The idea is that anything that has a connection, no matter how loose or how far back in antiquity, to worship or honouring of other gods than Jehovah must be avoided as if your life depends on it.
Which incidentally you think it does when you are a Jehovah’s Witness. Especially as a child because you would consider an affront before Jehovah worse than being particularly nice to your Mum on a day “unbelievers” have chosen for that purpose.
To give an example of how that alienates you as a child, when I was having a hair cut the hair dresser asked me what I was doing for Mother’s Day. I tried to be evasive but he persisted and got quite mad at me when he insisted that I buy my mum a card. At one point I feared my ears were going to be cut off as the scissors snipped away ever more quickly as he talked.
Then there was school where we were asked to write a poem for Mum on Mother’s Day. Thankfully I got around that by writing a poem that did not contain Mothering Sunday etc – just a general poem that you could give your mother whenever.
The issue is that I had to be careful – not only because my mother would notice any faults of mine with regards to faith. The ultimate policeman watching me was Jehovah and I really wanted to please him, and I was thankful I knew how to. Saddened that no one else seemed to be so keen to know or learn that which the Society taught.
A child does not know any better and will follow whatever seems to please those in authority in order to avoid sanction and get gratification. But I had my own reasons that went beyond that – I really believed that the generation alive in 1914 was going to be around when Armageddon came. The elders and Watchtower publications said that during the 1980s. I thought they knew what they were talking about. I wanted to live; I wanted to be a survivor, and I believed what the adults that I spent most of my time with told me.
Some things in the past are easily left behind, but not forgotten. Because how you behave over Christmas, birthdays, Easter, Mother’s and Father’s Day is a cause to divide you from other kids – and those outside your faith. It is used as an example that they are “bad associations” that do not know the way. I can assure you that the Society does not make up for children with the lack of fun unless you get a sense of justice done when the end of the system of things comes and kills everyone you ever knew outside the Kingdom Hall.
Frankly that terrified me that most people were going to die, and would be fighting God’s people till the battle was won. Such are the visions that get put in your head, and that 100% conviction in what the Society, and only what the Society tells you, will save you when Jesus comes back.
On that note going to write out my card. My Mum seems to be going through a desire to see environment disaster movies. So this weekend a triple bill of “Twister”, “Deep Impact” and “Dantes Peak” on DVD - my gift to someone who matters every day but especially on Mothering Sunday.
Are the Jehovah’s Witnesses a cult?
It seems that my blog describing my experience as a child in the Jehovah’s Witnesses has caused a reaction, and here I will reply to an e mail I received from Tiffany.
Watchtower Publications
It is absolutely correct to say that reading Watchtower publications is the main reading material of a Jehovah’s Witness. More so than the bible. The claim to aid study of the bible is fine – until you realize that different editions of the same publications can have differences in theology – with no mention in the preface.
Examples – The Live Forever book mentioned that those destroyed in Sodom and Gomorrah would be resurrected on the Day of Judgement. A new edition changed this to they would not be resurrected as they had already been judged. Both interpretations had scripture.
A further was the book used in Theocratic Ministry School. The new edition had less pages. The main reason was a whole section in the old that explained that Jehovah was not the accurate pronunciation of the Hebrew god was gone.
The point I am making is that what you read is the publications from the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society – and only them. One publisher to aid in the understanding of the bible. One source. Now that may not be a good idea – good to know where there are differences of opinion. Now to restrict yourself to only one source of information, to have faith in one body that changes its views without recognizing these changes openly?
As to paying for the books – well yes I paid for them from the book shop at the Kingdom Hall – at print costs. Whether that was passed on to the person being witnessed was another matter. That was in the 1980s and I mention that had changed. You inform me that is based on members giving donations (voluntary) towards costs.
Meetings
The times I give include the talks and the socialising that happened afterwards. But I can assure you that Elders and Ministerial Servants do take a watch over their flock. Contributions are noticed – and with four meetings a week pretty easy for all to keep tabs on people. I never suggested that was anything sinister like note taking going on. I am sure they could see the spiritual development, and make judgements.
Isolated
Now the lack of socialising at parties, Christmas, Easter, pancake day, Valentines and anything else that remotely resembles ancient pagan practice you cannot participate in. As a child that proved very isolating.
As a citizen you do not vote or participate in government. Because this system of things is part of Satan’s world. Again, this view of society is one that isolates.
Bad associations spoil useful habits – I was constantly being told would Jesus hang out with these people? Which considering the people he did hang out with seem ironic. But it led to being isolated from people that were not part of the faith.
Women
The head covering of women while leading prayer in the presence of a brother is not one of respect. It is one of submission of one gender to another. Now not everyone embraces the idea of gender equality. For example only men can be Ministerial Servants or Elders. To defend this on bible principles is to suggest that we cannot move pass the views and prejudices of bible writers. Nor reason for ourselves. Or discuss that the Jehovah’s Witness dogma could be wrong? Yet time and revision has shown that to be the case.
Jehovah’s Witnesses a Cult?
This description at the end of my blog upset you. Now in simplest forms denying the divinity of christ would make the JWs a cult of christianity. But my meaning is more this:
UNIVERSAL DEFINITION
CULT – Any group which has a pyramid type authoritarian leadership structure with all teaching and guidance coming from the person/persons at the top. The group will claim to be the only way to God; Nirvana; Paradise; Ultimate Reality; Full Potential, Way to Happiness etc, and will use thought reform or mind control techniques to gain control and keep their members. This definition covers cults within all major world religions, along with those cults which have no OBVIOUS religious base such as commercial, educational and psychological cults. Others may define these a little differently, but this is the simplest to work from. THE ‘ORTHODOX BIBLE-BASED CULT’
A group is called a cult because of their behaviour – not their doctrines. Doctrine is an issue in the area of Apologetics and Heresy. Most religious cults do teach what the Christian church would declare to be heresy but some do not. Some cults teach the basics of the Christian faith but have behavioural patterns that are abusive, controlling and cultic.
This occurs in both Non-Charismatic and Charismatic churches. These groups teach the central doctrines of the Christian faith and then add the extra authority of leadership or someone’s particular writings. They centre around the interpretations of the leadership and submissive and unquestioning acceptance of these is essential to be a member of good standing. This acceptance includes what we consider non-essential doctrines e.i. not salvation issues (such as the Person and Work of Christ.) The key is that they will be using mind control or undue influence on their members.
http://www.religio.de/cudef.html
Now for me the Jehovah’s Witnesses qualify as outlined here and in the previous blog. To be baptized is a very serious commitment. The constant mantra that Satan controls this system of things and bad associations spoil useful habits does control how you behave and interact with people. The chain of command of the whole organization, the lack of debate about doctrine within a Kingdom Hall, that interpretation flows from the top down. And is accepted, even when it changes, as being the will of Jehovah. The format of meetings, repeating what you have already read before the meeting at the meeting, than answering from what you have read - in triplicate - is a great mind enforcer.
The interpretation to die over a dietary commandment to ancient Israelites is one that especially marks out the faith for cult behaviour. The prohibition on blood transfusions makes no rational sense, there is nothing in the bible that suggests that it takes precedence over life and death situations. Prove it goes beyond the kitchen and the plate. It is also a big lie for an organisation that has predicted the end of the world from the founder Russell (in 1905 Abraham, Issac and Jacob were to be ruling on earth) to the generation that saw 1914 would see the end of this system of things when I studied. That too has changed, only that was not so easily put to one side unlike a new edition.
The definition of a false prophet is one that in the name of god predicts something which does not come to pass. To live by bible principle how do you get pass this one?
Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Naturally I have an unfair advantage. I do not believe that one writer or book or organisation is special or more sacred than another. Ancient superstition does not hold me in the same way because of it nor do I prefer supernatural explanations for things best left to a bygone era. The evidence speaks for itself, and I hope that one day you realise that happiness is not dependent on you having something you call truth or holding to dogma you have no part in forming or questioning. I sincerely hope that you realise that the whole system of the organisation is one that is self serving and depends on you not to be a freethinker or to question – just to believe and help others to convert.
I can respect you – we both have the right to religious freedom and none. But I cannot respect the belief that leads to such inhumane treatment and degradation – legitimising it as being of god’s word.
John
Give Blood Against Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Dogma – The Blood Challenge – life over death
I have started a new blog devoted to encouraging people to give blood in defiance of Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Dogma. Think of it as something more meaningful than the blasphemy challenge – because when you do this not only are you challenging religious dogma but you are actually doing something altruistic – giving someone the chance of life.
Also it is more hardcore – needles are involved. Right now I am wearing a bruise and feeling pretty good about myself.
For more please check out:
http://thebloodchallenge.wordpress.com/
Given blood – Give blood against Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Dogma
Part One
Part Two
Part Three
Part Four
Well after giving blood to be honest we were feeling it. Owen (Hyrax) most of all – he was white as a sheet coming out and had to lie down, Joe needed sugar and I had a bruise when the needle went in which stopped me giving a pint – just enough for medical tests.
Thanks to Owen and Joe for coming up all this way to give blood. Hope those that pledged do so too (most have) and that the videos inspire you to do so. All agreed it was worth it. Not just for the tea and biscuits at the end.
One question asked prior to giving blood was “Has anyone told you not to give blood?” – which brought a smile to my face as that was one of the things that had brough me to the blood donor centre. The idea that the blood in my body was so sacred that it belonged to a god that would not want me to use it to help others is one that I fully rebuke.
Now Mat has mentioned that in Part 3 it sounds like I may not have been telling the truth on the form. Far from it – but my point there was that if I had been gay I would not have been able to give blood. There was no question asking if I had not used condoms in heterosexual intercourse. But there was whether I had or had not used protection with sex with another man.
It has been raised a few times in the thread on rd.net together with the fact that I could not give blood in the USA because of fears over CJD (which I was asked about here in the UK if any relatives affected by).
It does seem like something based not so much on science but on fear and prejudice.
Anyway we are all feeling good apart from a little more lethargic than normal. A small price to pay for helping your neighbour.
For more including how you can give blood for the same reasons check out:
http://thebloodchallenge.wordpress.com/
Dr Evan Harris pulls amendment on blasphemy law
Good Evans
Dr Harris withdraw his amendment because the government want to introduce the end of the blasphemy laws after consultation with the Church of England. That could be stalling tactics – I would not be surprised to find out that the government wants to introduce a law that covers all faith in terms of how you may discuss it – please keep vigilant on that matter and e mailing/writing your MP that what you want to see is a repeal of the blasphemy law and the protection of people and not a belief. A free society can challenge anyone over what they think to be true.
The government was whipping it’s MPs to vote against the amendment – the fear of rebellion (Brown needs to get back to Stalin from Mr Bean ASAP – Vince Cable MP’s joke struck a nerve) meant this caveat. Harris to his credit did not play politics with the amendment – which I imagine would have been lost with the whipping but the government embarrassed by how many Labour MPs would defy the government line.
It ain’t over till its over.
Blood Thursday
Well tomorrow I will give blood which in principle, according to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, would be a slight before god. The fact that I may help to save a life by this action though makes me feel good about the whole thing, but I feel the tinge of illicitness like when as a teenager I gave a girl a birthday present. Hard to believe that something so simple as giving a gift to someone could be seen as wrong – and when that gift is life it goes from being a kill joy idea to unnecessary death.
I hope one day people wake up to that. I fear that the Jehovah’s Witnesses may not change this dogma because it makes them stand out in a way that not celebrating birthday parties and Christmas never could. But if enough people challenge it, from both inside and outside, then maybe it can change. Lives can be saved. If the law in countries can be done to save infants who have no time for a court hearing that would be a step in the right direction to prevent what is child abuse.
Give Blood
Just arranging to give blood this month. Matalanifesto (Mat as I refer to him on the blog normally) has kindly agreed to come up and film me talking about it, going through it. Will put up on youtube where my username is “Dawkinist” – which is a tongue in cheek name, more poking fun at the way people try to use the word. I already had that outlook on life without him – reading his books gave me a better insight into what science allowed us to understand about life on earth. But what he has done is motivate me in making my concerns voiced and to act in getting that message across.
I started a pledge to donate blood in protest at Jehovah’s Witness teaching. I give my further reasons for doing this here. For me the summery reason is an infant should not die because of the religious conviction of their parents. The labelling of children in this manner is child abuse – the legal courts deciding in cases around the world can mean that precious time allows an unnecessary death. Not only that, but giving something that costs you nothing but gives someone else life is a generosity to be encouraged.
I hope that you too may consider it. Just think – saving a life this way is considered a sin. The idea is ludicrous, but not funny when people die. You will hear about the deaths of children and adults – they do happen around the world. I question the adult’s choices, but they make their own choices. A child though should not die for a reason that they cannot understand, without words they cannot speak, without a chance to understand that the cult is a fraud, a false prophet, and a false representation of what it is to live a life questioning what you may and living as a citizen with full rights irrespective of gender or sexual orientation.
Do something amazing – give blood.
The National Blood Service (England and North Wales)
The Welsh Blood Service (South Wales)
