Homo economicus’ Weblog

There has been a change in the guidelines on the forum – which is to safeguard the charitable position of the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science – with regards to content. There has always been discussions about moderating the forum between staff members, and I will not allude to the positions we took in those discussions – they were ongoing and with a view to making the site the best we could. Richard has made the position clear, and with the best of reasons for doing so:

THIS site is focused around reason and science, coupled with strong opposition to unreason, including religion.

I acknowledge that it is also a place where people make friends. It is a community, and that is a valuable part of it. Many of our forum threads have an atmosphere of friends going out for a drink and chatting. I think that is valuable, and I don’t think we should insist on sticking to serious topics. That would be a good way to stifle the sense of community, and that would be a real shame (although I can think of better things to be “almost in tears about”).

On the other hand, the parent organization of this site is two charities, one in Britain and one in USA. We fought long and hard (much longer and harder than most charities have to) for our charitable status. You wouldn’t believe how innocent were the things we had on our website that the lawyers made us remove for fear of offending the Charity Commissioners. You wouldn’t believe the innocent things we had on our website that the Charity Commissioners queried, and advised us to remove before we could proceed to charitable status. You wouldn’t believe the money we spent (I spent) on all that legal advice.

Now, the issue of “censorship”. Don’t be so silly. Censorship is PREVENTING people from speaking or writing freely. Censorship is seizing books and impounding them. It is NOT censorship when a publisher refuses to publish a book, for whatever reason. The publisher is simply saying, “Thank you, I don’t want to publish your book. Perhaps another publisher will.” That’s not censorship. Same thing with newspapers. When you send an article in to a newspaper, or a letter to the editor, the chances are they won’t publish it. But they are not CENSORING you, they are just exercising editorial discrimination.

We on RD.net are in the position of publishers and editors. Publishing costs money, believe it or not. We are specialist publishers, specialising in reason, science, and opposition to unreason and religion. As an extra service, we subsidize conversations on topics of general interest among friends who come here in the first place because they are interested in the primary focus of the site. But we are under no obligation to publish EVERYTHING that comes our way. Would you expect a site devoted to ornithology, or model railways, to publish, at their own expense, conversations on fist-fucking? Especially if they are vulnerable, on a year by year basis, to losing their charitable status?

As for the abrupt timing, I feel I should apologise for that. I received such forceful complaints from veteran members of the forum, mostly about a sadomasochistic thread, that I thought I’d better have a look at the thread for myself (I had no idea of its existence before). I read it through the eyes of a charity commission lawyer, which explains the haste with which I picked up the phone to Josh (who also was completely unaware of its existence).

I’d now like to start a constructive discussion on how to preserve the sense of fellowship and community on our forum, without departing so far from our stated aims of reason and science that we jeopardize our charitable status.

Richard [source]

I know that some members have moaned about freedom of expression on the forum, some making their position very clear in signatures. However, the charitable consideration of RDFRS are of greater concern than the lewd behaviour that some people wanted to talk about. Soon no doubt it will be water under the bridge, and I hope people realise that the aims of the Foundation are more important.

It has meant that OBC is no longer the site administrator of the forum. His comment on that is the measure of a man that not only takes responsibility but is a fine guy that has devoted a lot of hours and time on behalf of the website and RDFRS as a volunteer, and for that I am thankful and want to pay tribute to Wayne publicly for that:

I feel that I should make this announcement about the recent controversy and the miss placed attacks. As the Site Admin this is my fault. The subjects, while I did not really partake in them, I did argue on behalf of them. I thought I was acting in the best interest of the community. There were others that expressed there concerns of this. I should have listen to them, if I had none of this would have probably happened. The owners were put in a tough potion, that I unintentionally put them in. They had no choice to act the way they did, which I fully support. By me not tacking action to curb the tone of the threads, we now find ourselves in this situation.

Please try to understand, if I had acted and removed the outlandish threads there would be some unhappy, but we would not find ourselves where we are now. The owners are acting responsibly regarding the content of the forum. Please stop directing your anger at them, it is me that you should place the blame on. I was the one responsibly, the buck stop here. They if anything are cleaning the mess I put us in. We need to move on, and heal as a community, this to shall pass. [source]

It seems people will invent things about the showing that PZ Myers was requested to leave but Dawkins gained entry.

I was asked if I wanted my name put down on the web site by a friend but it did not strike me as something I wanted to watch. Catching up with those from RDFRS that did go, I think that PZ and myself had the better part of the deal. They did not gate crash the event. It was not by invitation only but a free showing you could put yourself and some friends down for.

However this story on the Expelled web site suggests it but then has this to say at the end:

Ben Stein’s “Expelled” is one of the more evenhanded, clever, and well-produced documentaries currently on the market. While the Evolution/Intelligent Design debate can spark much emotion, anyone walking away from this film will be convinced that the merits of Intelligent Design should be on the same level playing field as Evolutionary Theory. This film is about the freedom of speech, the freedom of ideas and ability to express those ideas…not about whether God created the heavens and the earth.

Many scenes are centered around the Berlin Wall, and Ben Stein being Jewish actually visits many death camps and death showers. In fact, Nazi Germany is the thread that ties everything in the movie together. Evolution leads to atheism leads to eugenics leads to Holocaust and Nazi Germany.

I may as well say that voting a foreign Austrian into power will cause this all to happen.

California sleep well tonight …..

Speaking of California, Josh Timonen of RDFRS had a rather different take on the documentary:

Expelled seems to mark a shift in the Creationists’ tactics. Everything they’ve tried to do so far has failed, so now they’re trying to claim it’s a conspiracy. ‘Big Science is trying to keep God out of the classroom, and you’d better do something about it fast or we’re going to have another Holocaust!’ Of course, god-did-it is not science, but I don’t think this matters to the film’s target audience. Expelled is simply a rallying call to religious Americans. It will probably be shown in church basements, and will further insulate those who fear the seed of doubt. The film’s message is so appalling (teaching evolution = the Holocaust) and is presented so crudely that any sane person will see it for the propaganda it is. There was virtually no real scientific content, and I felt stupider for having sat through it.

Of course everyone seems to have forgotton the Flying Spaggehtii Monster in all this, but I am sure the presence of his Noodly Appendage will be felt soon.

Richard Dawkins is not only Darwin’s Rottweiler; he is for many the intellectual heavyweight in the battle for reason and the scientific method over faith based conclusions over the natural world. His talk at the conference was an immediate highlight as the first guest speaker on what really would be a good Friday.

The argument from design is one that not only shows “failure of imagination” but also the ”lamentable state of education”. Darwin’s explanation about the appearance of design is the opposite of chance. The argument that life existing at all without a designer is akin to a hurricane in a scrap yard forming a 747 is fanciful when “god is the ultimate 747″.

The supposed persecution of those that support intelligent design as a credible scientific theory is to be parodied in a film by RDFRS called Expelled: No Storks Allowed that will suggest that stork theory is a credible alternative to sex theory in the propagation of the human race.

In an earlier blog I talk about PZ Myers being expelled from the actual Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed showing at the American Mall. Dawkins commented that the film was utter rubbish in it’s “execution, unartistic and just plain incompetent from a film making point of view”.

There are real scientific controversies that we can discuss: extinction of the dinosaurs, man made contribution to global warming. This really is one that a discussion is taking place and one where arguments and evidence count to reaching a theory which is supported by a body of facts.

Sometimes the savagery in which Dawkins goes for the jugular of creationists makes people wonder if we should be more polite – whether the hammer or feather approach. The feather approach would be one that we can have faith and evolution (Ken Miller) and that Dawkins is rocking the boat (Eugene Scott).

One idea to counter that is this:  some religious people claim that evolution and faith are incompatible – if we demonstrate the fact of evolution then we will destroy religion. Yet clearly the fact of evolution has not destroyed faith – it also suggests that the feather school wants a compromise that is not going to happen. The hammer approach is no respect would be unwarranted and that we have the right to question faith claims. One significant way is to encourage comparative religion – especially as fundamentalist christians would hate it as “children learn about faiths, see the incompatibility and draw their own conclusions”.

To aid in that focus it is crucial that we use our resources on long lasting matters rather then token gestures. That we concentrate on stem cell research, tax free status of faith groups as opposed other groups, and a proper education that is denied in a Madrassa. That rather than Pyrrhic victory that plays into the hands of extremists like defacing dollars or the public situation of the ten commandments. In the Q & A Dawkins accepted that if the use of “In God We Trust” was being used to further encourage religious faith in political discourse because it is on the currency (only since 1950s) then may be it was not a token gesture as he had mentioned.

The issue is that we do not want to come across like the stereo type “fuss pots” being “propaganda for christian fundamentalists”. We do not want to make it easy for politicians ignoring us nor let them get away with it, something which Ellen Johnson touched on. Consciousness raising is what this is about and mentioning the token issues are a good example of that whether the dollar bill or the pledge of allegiance. Just as feminists made us more aware of the language we use, let us make it clear that labelling children by their parents faith is not only wrong but ridiculous and that we should not label children as a christian child anymore then we would a conservative child.

Nor should we feel that we have to use our atheism in making the long lasting cases that will make a difference. This goes back to what Sam Harris said about not lying in the chalk outline that fundamentalists paint for us. There is hope for the future, concentrating on the issues that matter. In doing so we are promoting education, and civil rights.

In case you have not heard the story this may well make you laugh your socks off

I first heard that Expelled was going to be shown at the Mall of America on Thursday night when Healthy Addict (known, to her amusement, in RDFRS circles as Banana Girl for her Richard Dawkins signed fruit that she posed with at the AAI Conference that actually belonged to a guy that played Jesus). The thought of going to see a film that would portray ID as being another different scientifically plausible theory struck me as being as much fun as having a bunch of Jehovah’s Witnesses trying to explain that just because they were wrong to say impending Armageddon they do not lack credibility on telling you these things. Even if free this would not appeal.

So other RDFRS crowd went while I stayed at the hotel to meet up with the other volunteers. Among those going to the film at the Mall of America was PZ Myers. Who was recognised at the showing and told that he was not allowed to view the film. Then later told that he was not allowed to be in the Mall.

What makes this ironic is that his family was allowed in and so was Richard Dawkins.

Only Hu

Met up with PZ Myers and Richard Dawkins and the others in the bar, we had another story to tell. We had gone out to lunch at Brenda’s – an organic, serving vegan desserts kind of place. Going to we passed  a ’90s Gay bar that had a Happy Hour but presumably was at least merry the rest of the night.

While discussing life the universe and everything a man at another table asked us all if we were at school then if our parents were paying the bill. This rather bizarre take on us (we are mostly in our late twenties, accept for me always trying to be different at 30) seemed as a way to talk to us as he revealed that he was at a spiritual conference.

My curiosity was heightened because the lady next to me on the plane was also going to a spiritual conference, and thankfully she told me this and that it was about hearing the voice of God while we landed rather than when we took off (nine hours would have been longer). He produced a card that explained everything:

the slow burning love of god by saying Hu (pronounced Hue) with a feeling of love expelled as you hold the sound. Repeat for twenty minutes and feel the one with the divine.

Glad to be here instead. Rushed blog as need to have shower and set up RDFRS stall. Catch you later!

It seems like ages ago (December 07) that I was invited to help out RDFRS at the American Atheist Conference coming up over the Easter weekend (21-24) in Minneapolis. Now it is fast coming!

Tomorrow just before midnight I will start my journey down to Gatwick South terminal for my flight to Minneapolis-St. Paul International. Just purchased coach tickets. From hotel, coach, plane tickets all have been done over the internet – the ease of doing these things a welcome to someone that prefers arriving to the travelling. My printer however is making the job more difficult (despite repeated head cleaning only best quality is readable taking 5 minutes a page to print, and even then not really top quality). Out of A4 blank paper so using lined paper. So much of what I get from the internet I save on my computer – as much for saving space as for environment reasons.

Which leaves me needing to get health/travel insurance, not least after having watched Sicko. My hope is that I will sleep on the plane, arriving with the energy and no jet lag to shop at the Mall of America (touchdown is early afternoon local time), and hopefully catch up with other’s who may have decided to arrive a day earlier. Might wear my A shirt hanging out at the hotel so people can recognize me as a delegate. Please feel free to approach – no caution necessary!

As to fun on the last day of conference, idea is to go to the Mall. The Aquarium is open (biggest in the world) Easter Sunday, but I have no idea if transport will be running (half an hour away on public transport) but I imagine it will be. Hopefully answers to these questions will be found on Wednesday as Thursday will be much about organising the stall and meeting up with people. There are some bands performing in the evening with the conference proper starting Friday morning.

If you are attending look forward to meeting up with you – especially if you will be there Wednesday at the Marriott hotel where the conference will be!

Conference website

PDF of Programme for Conference

Big thanks to all you readers. The site has had so many hits recently so thanks for that. Will be using my camcorder a bit more often to film things. In aid of that will have to get a tripod at some point. Have to say I prefer writing and speaking to people, but will get used to it soon enough.

Materialists go shopping!

With regards the American Atheist Conference March 21-3, one thing we will be doing at RDFRS is a sightseeing tour of the Mall of America on the last day of the conference. Would be after the conference finishes on the last Sunday and the Mall is open till 7:00 pm. Will have more details of when we set off at the conference when I know what time everything is running. 

It would seem a good time to help the American economy out spending all the dollars I have thanks to the exchange rate.

All booked in at the Minneapolis Marriott® City Center hotel that the conference is at (staying Wednesday 19th till Monday 26th) more on the conference can be found here. The preferential rate on stays there are going fast so be quick to get them.

Mind you to save money I have a plan that involves leaving at midnight arriving at Gatwick 3:30am for an 11:30 am flight. Nine hour fly time and thanks to the five hour time difference be there for the mid afternoon. The plan is to sleep on the plane.

Some of the speakers I met at the AAI conference last year in Washington DC (well Virgina but hey, the Crystal City gets that a lot). But for me the key thing is meeting up and networking with like minded people and the excitement of being an Englishman abroad.

Will be on the RDFRS stall so please if you are coming by say hi and stop for a chat. If anyone knows any good things to do in Minneapolis do please suggest them – especially sightseeing. For example at AAI we did the walk from the Jefferson Memorial to the White House on the last day. The Minneapolis equivalent would be good. Only, if I am honest, until I Google I am very ignorant about the area. Except that everyone tells me it will be cold (unlike Cornwall where on the beach I read Dennett).

So please say if you are attending and drop by and say hi.

Realized that the best of the photos I had put on myspace but not on my blog. Rather a miss of me, but that shall be rectified now. Have great memories of the event in Washington DC as this blog will attest to. The blasphemy challenge in front of the White House and the march there from the Jefferson Memorial, and helping out the stall below and meeting up with others of the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science that I had only spoken to via the internet before was truly a memorable experience. 

 In March 21-3 will be going back to the states for the American Atheists Conference in Minnesota. Looking forward to going back and maybe will see you there on the RDFRS stall!

 One question though perhaps is why would you go to a conference, spending a lot of money to fly over, stay over, when usually you can watch the thing free on the internet? The key thing is networking and socialising. This was not just about getting a chance to hear writers I admire but also to meet many activists that could inspire and give advice. To that end I am very grateful to Linda LaScola who when I told her I was being very star struck by it all grabbed me by the hand and introduced me to everyone. That led me to approaching Dawkins with the signed £10 note idea for the auction. The rest as they say is history which can be read on the AAI Conference 2007 (this will be the first blog and all the others after that in the category are the ones relating to AAI).

Thing is you have to be forward. It is not that you have to be great at socialising or witty, smart or anything like that. Socialising in the bar afterwards was an experience as we talked about ideas and controversies. I remember seeing the Mayor of San Diego reverse his decision on same sex civil partnerships and it was moving to watch with other delegates.

So the company, socialising makes it worth every penny (or nickle) in addition to being there.